Anna Sevastyanovaдобавил заметку 2 years ago

https://www.deepl.com/translator#ru/en/Данная%20фраза%20здесь%20не%20подходит%0A%0A%0A
>> https://www.google.com/search?&q=does+not+fit+here

Не лексика и грамматика, а идиоматичность - самое сложное в изучении иностранного языка - открыла я для себя несколько лет назад, придя сюда, на ЛЛ.
Словари становятся всё лучше, точнее, только появится ли когда-нибудь идеальный словарь?
За неимением такого, по примеру Uly лично я веду свой словарь (не бумажный), в который стараюсь (когда не ленюсь) записывать то, чего не нахожу в общедоступных словарях.
Сниппеты на двух языках - тоже классная находка. Они позволяют правильно и точно перевести слова и выражения. Словари давно перестали быть основным источником знаний об английском языке с лёгкой руки Uly:))

Да-да, я имела в виду именно идиоматичность. ) Согласна, что словари становятся лучше. )
Интересно про собственный словарь, возьму на заметку.

Бывают сниппеты на двух языках? Или вы как-то переключаете язык? )

Я заметил, что ты написала это в комментарии, и не стал исправлять, потому что не хотел быть занудой. Наиболее идиоматичный способ сказать это - " That phrase doesn't/wouldn't work/fly here."

Uly, занудой? Я наоборот радуюсь, если меня исправляют. ) Это же помощь. )

👍🏼🤩

I don’t agree with “this phrase doesn’t fit here” unless you’re talking about the amount of text that’ll fit in a printed column, for example. The only form of FIT that we use with words is FITTING, and it refers more to the intensity of words vis-a-vis a situation, and not the correctness of their usage in a specific situation: “I know you were all affronted by Uly’s referring to the proposed translation as a “catastrophe,” but I must say that harsh as it sounds, it’s a very fitting descriptive for what I just read.”

The only way to avoid Runglish and improve idiomaticity is to learn words and phrases from natives, and not from other Russians (a practice which is rampant on this site). I agree with Tatiana that snippets are the best approach because they present a context which is unmistakable. It also helps to accept that most words and phrases can and do have as many meanings and nuances as there are situations and contexts that can be conceived by the human mind and the natural world, so don’t limit yourself to a handful of meanings in the dictionary.

Uly, thanks for explanation. )

You’re welcome. If you look at the recent post, Никто не хочет делать вам замечание, you’ll see the perfect example of contextual idiomaticity and how valuable snippets can be in any language.

What are “snippets”? Sorry for my stupid question

Not a stupid question at all! A snippet is an example of usage of a word or phrase within a clear context like a short dialogue or soliloquy, etc. A lot of dictionaries give one phrase or one sentence as examples, and these are often not enough to express what CONTEXT this word or phrase is used in. If you look at this page, the phrase AS A MATTER OF FACT is illustrated not with sentences, but with entire snippets of conversation. That way you know what the speakers are feeling when they use it, and what exactly they mean: https://www.smissle.com/as-a-matter-of-fact

Another good page of snippets: https://www.smissle.com/be-like

So a lot of times on this site, before we translate something we’re not sure of, we’ll ask the other users for a snippet. For example, someone posted можно подумать for translation. I wasn’t sure how to interpret it and couldn’t translate it, so I asked for a snippet and someone wrote:

Мои соседи через стенку. Можно подумать, влюблённая пара! Каждую ночь скандалы с битьём посуды и взаимными проклятьями. Без беру́ш спать невозможно.

So then, once I saw it in context, I was able to translate it:

My next door neighbors. Looking at them, you’d think they were so in love. But every nights it’s blow-outs, broken dishes and curses back and forth. Without my earplugs, I wouldn’t get a wink of sleep.

Then another user wrote a different snippet:

— Ты слышала, Наташка вчера рассталась с Женей?
— Да ладно? Что это вдруг?
— Ну, типа, он ей изменял. Она его припёрла к стенке и он сознался.
— Офигеть! Можно подумать, она ему никогда не изменяла! Во даёт, строит из себя святу́ю.

And seeing it in context, I was able to give another translation of the same phrase:

“Did you hear? Natasha and Gene broke up yesterday.”
“What? Where did that come from all of a sudden?”
“Well, apparently, he cheated on her. She cornered him and he admitted it.”
“Huh! As if she never cheated on him! Isn’t that something! …making herself out to be this saint.”

Thanks, Uly, that totally makes sense. It’s all about words collocability in English 👍🏼👍🏼
I always try to equip my students with the context and legitimate examples and I keep my own “dictionary” in Notes with snippets like Tatyana (I just didn’t know the term) 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

You got it!)))

Uly do you happen to have Telegram? Looking for private classes with a native to brush up on some language nuances. Had a few classes with a native, not quite satisfied 🤷🏻‍♀️ my TG elvish_kate, could you hit me up ?

Gladly!