I found myself in the middle of a pine forest - a gorgeous one. I walked through it and couldn’t take my eyes off the magnificent scenery.

+++Tatiana!

🤩🙏🙏

Ana, your translation has problems. I'll be specific:
⦿ "It was a pine forest, it was very beautiful" is actually two complete sentences separated by a comma. That doesn't work in English. We call that a run-on sentence. Sentences can only be separated by a period (.) a semicolon (;) or an em-dash (—). [Refer to Tatiana's use of this punctuation in her translation]
⦿ In writing, we tend to avoid the word VERY, and opt for a more emphatic adjective that expresses the same quality. In her translations, Tatiana replaced "very beautiful" with GORGEOUS.
⦿ When you have a phrase of any kind that comes before the subject of the sentence, you have to separate them with a comma: "Walking through it,<[comma] I couldn't..."
⦿ We don't use the word NATURE the same way you use НАТУРА in Russian. In her translation, Tatiana opted for SCENERY, which is a very good alternative in English.

⦿ The definite article THE links qualities and traits to their owner, so you don't have to say "in that area." It's enough in English to say where you are and then mention THE things (that are there). "Whenever I'm in Chicago, I spend a lot of time walking around. I love the parks." Here, the reader understands that it's the parks in Chicago/there/in that city, etc.

So yes, your translation had problems, but also the opportunity to learn five important points about English! Also, when you're unsure about a translation, you can add it in the comments and I'll check it for you before you post it, if you like. Let me know if you have any questions about my corrections 😉

To tell the truth, this sentence is not a good example of Russian language.
But we must stick to it more, than Tatiana did.

When you add a translation, you can also edit the source language if you think it’s deficient.

What does this mean: “But we must stick to it more, than Tatiana did.”

(we don’t use a comma before THAN)

Uly, thank you. I’ll read everything you wrote when I have more time. But now I wanted to mention that in the original sentence there was nothing like “I found myself in the middle of”.

“We should translate more literately than Tatiana did”?

Tatiana, yes. )

“in the middle of” is not in the sentence, but it’s in the context: if the speaker is looking around, marveling at the scenery, the translator can place them there using any number of phrases. Tatiana chose to say that they “found themselves in the middle of” it, which sounds extremely natural and idiomatic. The most successful translators translate concepts, not words.

I’ll add a more literal translation if that helps.

Uly, Tatiana, sorry, I’ll be back here as soon as I can. It’s an interesting discussion for me, but I have to go now.

Uly, what other phrases can a translator use here? Besides “I found myself in the middle of”.

(And suddenly/then) there I was, in a…

Before me/all around me was a…

Bear in mind that my translation is quite literal and I don’t like it half as much as I like Tatiana’s.

Uly, OK. I like it too, but not the first phrase (I found myself in the middle of...). I think it’s too literary. Am I wrong?

And the definition of this phrase in Macmillan dictionary is only one: “to realize that you are in a place or doing smth without really intending or planning to”. Is it alright to use it when we don’t know whether the speaker planed to visit this forest or not?

This post has no context. We don’t know how or why the person is there. All we know is that they’re in awe of what they see, so, at least to me (and obviously Tatiana), the most obvious context is that they were walking and came upon a beautiful pine forest — without planning.

Then, the corrections:
1. I remember that rule, so I separated the original sentence in two. Do I have to separate all complete sentences?
And you can also use a conjunction as you did.
2. Ok, got it.
3. Ok
4. You mean «природа»? I can’t translate it here as “nature”? Though I agree that “scenery” is better here. )
5. I see.
Thank you for the new information. )

(1) Yes. "It was a forest" and "It was very beautiful" are two complete sentences. You can separate them with a conjunction, an em-dash, a semi-colon or a period. Just not a comma.
(4) No. NATURE isn't used like that normally. We use use the outdoors, the scenery, the landscape, the natural splendor/beauty (of a place), etc.
_________
You're very welcome as always))

Is it me, or is the Russian version not somewhat simplistic and insipid?

Ok, we can’t say for sure. So, I’d rather use other phrases you mentioned.

👍🏼😉

Yes, the Russian version is rather insipid. Nowadays it can only suit as a comment in Instagram, where all the beauty can be seen in a photo. ))

*The only thing it’s suited for is a comment on IG…

Ok. Thanks. Good night. )

Good night 💤😴😘

I’ll leave my translation in case anyone wants to understand what we are talking about.

👍🏼

Потому что Татьяна английский действительно значит. Она ведь думает по-английски как носитель и не тупо повторяет эту чушь, которой учат в учебниках в России и считают английским. Читай и учись!

Uly, how come you’ve become so rude?
Do you really think you can judge the level of English in our schools by the level people have here? I think it’s clear that professionals are not here. And I can assure you I have friends, who are linguists and they know English. And I think it’s clear that if you want to teach someone you must respect those who you teach. I’m not a linguist, but it is obvious that in universities people study specific directions of English and only those who become linguists know literary English.
And you should understand that you are not a teacher. If you were, people wouldn’t have to check dictionaries to understand what you are talking about. Teachers explain things and it’s a thing they learn in universities. Please, take no offense, but think about what I wrote, even though I might have made mistakes. I wish you well.

Анна, я что-то пропустила? Где грубость-то была со стороны Uly? То, что он назвал чушью многие вещи из российских учебников английского? Если да, то у него есть на это полное право. Он здесь постоянно вынужден исправлять наши бесконечные и ошибки, и причина их - те же самые учебники. Вкупе с отсутствием языковой среды, разумеется. Я сама уже несколько лет пытаюсь избавиться от ошибочных шаблонов и представлений, прочно засевших в голове благодаря многолетнему пользованию устаревшими российскими учебниками. Мало того, я это ещё другим в головы пыталась вбивать. 🤦‍♀️
К сожалению, наши чиновники от образования до сих пор держатся за идею «британского» английского, не желая признавать, что в мире уже давно используется global English, который, нравится это кому-то или нет, не совсем британский (или совсем не британский?). Не хотят у нас идти в ногу со временем. Поэтому-то продвинутые молодые люди предпочитают учить язык по другим источникам, благо такие возможности сейчас есть.

А касаемо Uly, остаётся только удивляться его безграничному терпению. Только представьте себя на его месте - Вы на каком-либо сайте год за годом исправляете бесконечные и бесчисленные ошибки изучающих русский язык, а они Вам время от времени выдают: нас, типа, так учили и тычут в своймучебник. Вы не устаёте поражаться: откуда вся эта ерунда у них в учебниках? А когда Вы называете вещи своими именами, Вас вдруг обвиняют в грубости. 🤔

I must apologize about one thing. Maybe it was only once when you didn’t explain to me the meaning of the phrase you wrote and only when I checked the dictionary, I understood you. But don’t be rude to people. I think you know it’s no good and it only holds you away from the goal of helping people.

Татьяна, Ули написал, что во всех учебниках в России - чушь.
Я не эксперт по регионам, но я занималась по российским методическим пособиям в университете + у нас были английские пособия. Но не равняйтесь на меня, я знаю, что я многое забыла и поэтому я здесь. Хотя мне рановато переводить, надо ещё покорпеть над учебниками (у меня Cambridge). Но называть все учебники в России - чушью, это странно.

К сожалению, то, о чём я говорю, происходило без Вашего присутствия. Ещё раз: как человек, учившийся и преподававший по таким учебникам, а также перевидавших на самых разных платформах людей, учившихся по таким же учебникам, утверждаю, что слова «чушь, которой учат в учебниках в России и считают английским» оправданы. Здесь имеются в виду не все учебники, конечно, все учебники никто знать не может, но большинство из них. И опыт взаимодействия с изучающими английский только на одном этом сайте, вполне даёт Uly право так говорить.

Анна, я не знакома с Вашими университетскими пособиями; я думаю, что как раз они были на высоте (МГУ, если не ошибаюсь).

Да, они были хорошими (МГИМО).
Я вам верю, Татьяна, что была и возможно есть такая ситуация с учебниками.
Я за то, чтобы говорить точно. )

Dearest Anna, if anyone has been rude here, it's you! Rude and naïve. And your rudest comment: "And you should understand that you are not a teacher." I most certainly AM a teacher — a teacher who took the time to write you special, bulleted grammar explanations at the top of this post and others. I've been "teaching English" on this site for years — you just haven't been here, so you don't know what you're talking about. And I don't understand about the "phrase I didn't explain" to you... do you mean "is it me"? Because I DID explain it by way of translation: это только мне кажется, или... So I don't know why you had to look it up in the dicitonary. But just in case I wasn't clear enough, let me repeat: the English that is taught in Russia SUCKS! It's from the 60's and it makes Russians talk and write like robots... much like your English on this post BEFORE I TAUGHT YOU!

Also, you should know that Valery Danilin is and always has been a troublemaker. He doesn’t contribute anything linguistically to the site — he just plants little seeds of discord here and there and hopes they’ll grow into arguments. So while you’re defending him, he’s sitting back laughing at you. You gave him exactly what he wanted.

Uly, hi! I don’t want to argue, but I must say that from the point of view of a person who hasn’t seen this phrase before the explanation by way of translation wasn’t enough to understand the meaning.

I must thank you for all the help from you.
I don’t know what else can I say, I don’t really want to argue.
So, I wish you all the best.

The translation IS the meaning. Or am I missing something?

Sorry, I can’t talk right now.
You’ve cleared up the situation to me. I want to work this out. But I don’t have time right now.
🙂

Hey guys!
Anna, Uly’s right, most Russian English textbooks suck. I’ve been telling this to everyone I know for years. And we shouldn't be offended by this statement, it's just the way it is, and it's not our fault. It’s our language education system's fault. Every day I deal with people whose English is horrible but they consider themselves as great professionals and they want to teach English (=to spread this shitty “English” to as many people as possible). It's like a fucking disease, pardon my French. I’m not saying that there are no great English educators here in Russia, there are some but not as many as should be.
As for this pink-avatared-Valery guy, he’s a well-known troublemaker, so please don't blame Uly for being a little short-tempered here.

Holy Moly, thank you! ) I won’t. )

Uly, in that particular case the translation wasn’t enough, because it sounded like a question and the trick was that the phrase is used to ask if anyone agrees with the speaker. That was not obvious from translation. I think that it’s just such a particular case.

You know, I’ve understood about that guy, and I don’t blame you anymore for talking to him like that, the thing that got me most was that you wrote that all Russian books sucks. I never studied using Russian books, only when I was at the university (it’s original materials). They were quite good. So, I’m sorry, I didn’t know the situation and didn’t believe you, because you are not a Russian citizen, like Holy Moly. I was defending higher education in Russia. Especially our linguists, graduates of Moscow State Linguistic University, whose work I’ve seen. I may be wrong assessing their work, maybe Olga (I’m not mistaken, Holy Moly?) knows more about graduates of this university.

I never studied using Russian books, only when I was at the university (it’s original materials). They were quite good.

_______________
“Quite good” and yet in one simple sentence you made at least six mistakes? Basically, in the corrections I gave you, I was UN-DOING the sucky English that you learned from those Russian textbooks. As a native, I can tell you that the only people on this site who use real, natural, modern English are Tatiana and Olga. Everyone else, including you, uses that “wonderful” Soviet English. So I don’t think you’re equipped to judge what’s “quite good”.

>Uly, in that particular case the translation wasn’t enough, because it sounded like a QUESTION and the trick was that the phrase is used to ASK if anyone agrees with the speaker.
_____________
Fact: A QUESTION is in fact used to ASK something, so the only translation/explanation possible was a... question!

I know I make mistakes. But I had no time to think it over. I feel them. (Besides, 20 years passed after my graduation and I forgot many things.) But now I had a more important goal. To apologize.

Apology accepted.

👍

I can’t stand this attitude. I’m leaving. Apologies must be mutual.
Uly, I see that you don’t care and don’t want to understand what I’m writing.
But most important for me is not to lose faith in myself and my sincere interest in English.
Thank you for all the help and support you gave me until this day. I’ll continue studying English.
Holy Moly, thank you for information about English. That’s helpful. )
Bye, everyone, and thanks for every moment I spent here.

Anna, please tell me what I need to apologize for?

You didn’t consider carefully what I wrote about the phrase “is it me, or...?”. I will try to make it clearer. The one who uses it is not asking something, he’s asking if anyone agrees with him. So, as I understand he’s confident in what he’s asking, but wants to know other people’s opinion about his thought. That was not obvious from the translation.

But the most important thing is the way you characterized me, as not having enough knowledge to judge about good/bad English. I must say that I was raised in Budapest, we had only one Russian TV channel, but it was mostly watched by our parents. As for me and my brother, we liked The Children’s Channel and MTV. I don’t know exactly if TCC was an American channel, but MTV was, for sure. So, in my childhood I watched cartoons and videos in English and heard spoken English every day. And I still go to the movie theater where films are broadcasted in English. And I really feel when something is wrong with English (in most cases).

I’m eager to learn English, but only with the help of someone who has faith in me and doesn’t tell me I’m not even equipped to judge what’s natural and what is not.

I have faith in everyone that they can learn English. But learning to communicate in a language and having a mastery that allows you to distinguish good English from bad English are two different things. What I was describing to Valery Danilin in my “rude” comment was Soviet English. Then you come along and translate a simple post into Soviet English, which you obviously learned in Russia. So what was I supposed to think. I’ve been studying Russian for ten years and I can’t judge good Russian from bad Russian. I can see grammatical mistakes, but that’s all. So I stand by my comment: you don’t know enough English to judge a good textbook from a bad one and the proof is that you thought your textbooks were “quite good,” and yet they taught you to write Soviet English. Furthermore, I’ve said nothing to you that I need to apologize for because it’s all fact. YOU’RE the one who saw my comment to Danilin and called me rude.

So if you want to stay, we’re happy to have you. But if your staying is contingent on my apology, sit down and make yourself comfortable!

You see, how can you teach me, when you ignored the first part of my post. I was not blaming you, I simply assumed that the translation was not enough in that case, leaving you free to say what you think about it, but you didn’t comment.

Maybe you are right about my judgements, but I must start with something, and I really do feel bad English, and the proof is that I liked Tatiana’s translation more than mine at first glance, but not the first phrase, on which we agreed that we can’t use it if we want to be precise, because we didn’t know the context.

I think I’ve apologized for calling you rude, so don’t be offended. If not, I apologize once more, I didn’t know that guy was a troublemaker. If I knew that, I wouldn’t have called you rude, I’d just pass it by.

OK, I must say that I never intentionally offend people and can’t stand when someone does this to me. If we don’t want to be back to good relationship we had, I don’t think I can stand things you write to me that you never wrote to me before like “you can sit and make yourself comfortable”. Don’t you think it’s not what is needed for a good work climate?

Почему-то, такие ситуации никогда не случаются ни со мной, ни с Татьяной, ни даже с въедливым ворчуном Грамблером. А с кем случаются, можно по пальцам одной руки пересчитать, поименно вспомнить товарищей... Так может быть, лучше в себе поискать?

Александр, я в себе уже давно все отслеживаю. Спасибо за предложение. ) Одна из причин в том, что я изменилась и не переношу, когда с людьми разговаривают невежливо. Хотя могу это простить.
И я знаю что со временем ситуация для меня ещё больше прояснится и все встанет на свои места. Кто что и где сделал неправильно.

She didn’t like being told that her English isn’t good enough to judge a good textbook from a bad one. I didn’t like being told that I should “remember that I’m not a teacher” after I’ve done my level best to teach everyone on here — most recently her!

Uly, didn’t you notice this: “I must apologize about one thing. Maybe it was only once when you didn’t explain to me the meaning of the phrase you wrote and only when I checked the dictionary, I understood you.”?
It’s a pity they don’t have “edit” option for comments here. Because when I wrote that you are not a teacher, I understood that it will offend you and I wrote another comment, which I quoted.
You deserve to be called a teacher for all that you are doing here.

Valery, isn’t it past your bedtime?

Tatiana didn’t only translate this, she rendered it according to the context: if he couldn’t take his eyes off the scenery, it follows that he found himself in (the middle of) it.

Расценки преподавателя, которая живёт в Лондоне 10 лет, стартуют от 18 евро. (в зависимости от потребностей, Business, для экзаменов)

Расценки носителей языка, профессиональных преподавателей, стартуют от 20 долларов и до 50.

Любой желающий может брать платные уроки, если не нравятся бесплатные. ( все комментарии Улия, как носителя языка, здесь бесплатные, и да, это уроки).

Ули, благодаря твоим переводам (а их уже около 1000) мой английский стал очень даже хорошеньким)) и это за 2 года. Учимся дальше)))

+1
Uly, I know I hurt you and I was wrong, so I want you to know that I’m sorry. Not counting on anything, I just want you to know this.

Zoya, thank you for your lovely comment. If I’ve been at all helpful in help you or anyone on here improve their English, that’s the only pay I require. Congratulations to you personally for sticking to it for two years and may your improve with every passing day.

Anna, no need to apologize — I forgave you the first time around))

You mean the first time I apologized? ))

yes

Can I be back? )

*come back. You were never banned, Anna.

I know, I know. But I’m asking you, because you do most of the work here. ) And, can we be friends again? )

of course

Uly, many thanks! No one day without English! :))
I wish our merciful Lord help me to improve my English by leaps and bounds. There is a really interesting fact that I've noticed - the more I learn, easier it becomes.
As I've already said - you're a treasure of this site, so stay here.)) And I'm sure a lot of intelligent questions and translations will be yet on here.

Hear, hear!

That’s great! 💛

Вот и ладушки☺️👍

Конечно не имею, Валерий. Хорош подъёбывать!

Это уже не подъёбки, а самый примитивный троллинг. Насрать перед дверью, позвонить и потребовать чтобы убрали. Можно ничего и не требовать, главное - насрать.

😂

ты здесь

😂

Ruslan, “It was a pine forest, which was very picturesque” is clumsy English. There are two ways to express this more succinctly: (1) It was a very picturesque pine forest. (2) It was a pine forest and it was very picturesque. Or you can opt to place the speaker in the pine forest more creatively, like Tatiana did.

PICTURESQUE isn’t bad, but we tend to avoid the word VERY in translation. Instead we opt for a more emphatic adjective: gorgeous, magnificent, stunning, etc. Also, WILDLIFE isn’t the best choice because it usually refers to animals, not scenery.

I'm a physicist, and that's what we write in our physics and chemistry papers. Just kidding, of course!🤣

Thank you very much for your comments. Great‼️

😂