Where have you put my dictionary? I can't find it anywhere.

The perfect expresses anger or frustration in this context. Is it the same in the Russian version?

А почему нет? Мой словарь неизвестно где, какой-то товарищ его неизвестно куда засунул, так что, да, сама ситуация немного неприятная. Это на мой взгляд. Ну и насколько я знаю, perfect tense также показывает принадлежность к настоящему времени, а в оригинале ясно написано "Я не могу его найти (сейчас)" = ситуация происходит в настоящее время. Словарь положили непонятно куда в прошедшем, но результат (недовольство хозяина словаря) происходит сейчас. Так что да, present perfect. Уж по крайней мере, мой вариант перевода вполне имеет право на существование 😊

Grammatically, everything you said is correct. However IDIOMATICALLY we use the perfect in a question like this when we are frustrated with the other person, or when we feel they have acted in an extreme manner. It's like the difference between "What did you do?" (... on your vacation, last weekend, etc.) and "What have you done?" (... there's a dead body in your house and blood everywhere). So let's say you came to the US to study and had an American roommate. You're rushing in the morning to go to class and you can't find your dictionary. If you ask "Where have you put my dictionary?" it implies that (1) She always loses your dictionary and just did it AGAIN!; (2) Your sick and tired of her taking your dictionary (3) You feel that she possibly did it on purpose.

Thanks, that's a great explanation. Seems like it's all not only about the grammar 😄 Unfortunately, here in schools we don't study such peculiarities. So anyway, do you think, my variant is not appropriate in this context? Because to my mind, in the Russian variant it's not clear wether the person is frustrated about the loss of the dictionary or not.

To give you a better example: If you arrange a dinner in a restaurant to introduce your new boyfriend to your parents and he shows up 45 minutes late, you would never ask "Where were you?" It's too mild and neutral. You would invariably as "Where have you been?" Because regardless of whether you say it loudly, in a low voice, in a whisper, it expresses your frustration with him.

I really don't know if the Russian variant expresses the same frustration. That's why I asked you : ). Would adding же make it more "angry"?

I got it, thanks, the examples you give are pretty clear. I am just trying to say that in the phrase with the dictionary, it's not clear.

You're welcome. Just out of curiosity, is there a way in Russian to make that question sound more frustrated? For example, in the roommate scenario.

Of course, for example: 1) Куда ты дел/засунул мой словарь, я нигде не могу его найти. 2) Куда ты положил мой словарь, я опять не могу его найти. These variants definitely show that the speaker is frustrated or annoyed with the situation.

Or "Куда ты подевал мой словарь?" :)

And yes, же would make it sound angry Куда же ты положил мой словарь? It's like the speaker is in a hurry and desperately trying to find that damned dictionary 😆

Да, или подевал)) Эх, люблю я русский язык 😊 столько вариантов)

Cool. That's what the perfect implies. Thanks for that. Very interesting.

The whole thing is the matter of the language variant: British or American one. In Russian schools we are traditionally taught the first one. In British English there is a kind of difference between the action completed in the PAST (yesterday and so on) and the one that, even finished, is somehow related to the present, as it is in this example. It seems to me, Jane meant the same. Though, thanks for your informative comment regarding the American usage of this weird for the Russian mentality tense.

The usage I'm referring to is used in both American and British English, and it's not grammatical, it's an idiomatic nuance of the language shared by all dialects. When the speaker wishes to express shock, frustration or incredulity, he will often resort to the perfect. For example, when speaking about a coworker's arrest, it's much more effective and "shocking" to say "Gary has killed his wife and he's in jail." The same thing extends to the question in this post. Using the perfect expresses more frustration and/or shock than the plain past. The closest thing I can compare it to in Russian is saying "Андрей убил свою жену" versus "Андрей взял и убил свою жену!" In other words the perfect seems to more successfully express the fact that something HAS BEEN "committed," be it killing someone or losing your roommate's dictionary.

Also, for the record, I never said that Jane's translation was wrong. I simply pointed out that there's a difference between her variant and mine, and I tried to explain it. However, I repeat, the difference is NOT American vs British, it's neutral vs emotive.

I see. Your explanation, Uly, couldn't be better. Then WE are frustrated, WE are shocked. I mean all those learners of English who are being taught the grammar rules the way I mentioned above. Let alone the teachers! Taking into account all that, they should say to their students something like this: " When taking school tests or exams (e.g. the Unified State Exam) you should use the Past Simple and Present Perfect as the rule in your textbook goes, but in the situation of REAL communication do it so and so (there they should use your explanation if they read it, of course))))))). I see It's not your problem.

The bottom line is that sometimes the choice of one form over another says something about the attitude of the speaker. For example, in Russian a perfective imperative can sound quite "frustrated" in some verbs because it is focused on obtaining a result - normally with verbs related to position and motion.

For example, "сядьте" would sound rude and could be used in court: "Подсудимый, сядьте," while "садитесь" is more neutral and even polite: "Проходите, садитесь". I believe this also extends to verb pairs such as: "ложиться-лечь", "вставать-встать", "раздеваться-рездеться", etc.

Similarly, I've read that if a perfective imperative doesn't work right away, the imperative is often repeated in the imperfective: "Татьяна, окно открой." [10 минут спустя] "Татьяна, открывай окно!" which expresses a little frustration. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

These are examples of what I call "supragrammatical" aspects of language - things that are expressed through constructions, intonations, special forms, etc. that reflect the attitude of the speaker and can't really be taught in a class or learned in a school... only explained by a native :)

You're absolutely right, Uly :)

Thank you, Olga. I was trying to explain the dynamics of using the perfect imperative over the plain imperative because Куда ты положил мой словарь doesn't sound "rough" enough to warrant the perfect, which is a little gruffer in English. Of course, you already know this because your. English. kicks. ass. ;)

Oh your Russian is quite impressive too!

Thank you! I'm trying.

Thanks for your detailed comments, Uly! 1.Does it all mean the school teachers don't have to go into details when explaining the difference between the two tenses to their students? 2. I'm also impressed by your knowledge of Russian!

You're very welcome, Tatiana. To answer your question, I think it depends on how intensive the English class is, and how good the English teacher is. These little nuances are usually presented in dialogs and explained in notes or elaborated on by the teacher. If all this fails, you can always ask me :)

On my Russian, thank you for the compliment – it's a work in progress : )

-:)